故宫三个尚未开放区揭秘
导游网 www.daoyou.org
"故宫的文华殿、武英殿、建福宫花园明年将向游人开放。"这条消息引起了研究故宫的学者们的高度关注。
国家文物局专家组组长、年近八旬的罗哲文老人告诉记者，故宫总面积72万平方米，目前的非开放区将近40万平方米。故宫可以简单分成东、中、西三线。目前已经开放的是中线，太和殿、中和殿、保和殿都聚集在此；西路则只开放了北部；而东路完全没有开放。
博物院的副院长晋洪魁曾提到，"故宫登记在册的馆藏文物有100万件；游人看到的馆藏文物据统计大概不到1万件。"
文华殿西路最重要的宫殿
罗哲文老人向记者介绍说："西路最重要的宫殿是文华殿，在建筑布局上，它是故宫太和殿、中和殿、保和殿三大殿的右翼，在功能上，则是三大殿的补充。"
文华殿初建时是太子们的正殿，房顶上覆盖绿瓦。后来由于几位太子年纪很小，不能处理政事，所以在嘉靖十五年正式改作皇帝便殿，换成黄瓦。
皇帝在此发表御论
著名的经筵典礼在文华殿举行。"经筵"是为皇帝研读经史而开设的御前讲席。皇帝要撰写御论，阐发自己学习"四书五经"的心得。文臣们跪在御前，聆听皇帝御论。
罗老说："清朝诸帝文化素养都非常高深，皇帝讲得兴高采烈，来了情绪，还会指名文臣辩论。然后，皇帝赐给大家清茶一杯，稍事休息。最后，皇帝率大家打开文华殿后门，来到殿后文渊阁，赏赐文臣们翻阅阁中藏书，作为对有幸参加典礼的文臣们的特殊奖励。"
武英殿曾举办李自成即位仪式
"武英殿始建于明初，与文华殿相对应。"罗哲文老人说，"明初帝王斋居、召见大臣都在武英殿，后移至文华殿。"崇祯年间，皇后庆祝生日的仪式在此殿举行。
明末农民起义军领袖李自成1644年春攻入北京，成立大顺政权。但很快就因军心懈怠，无力抵抗入关的清兵，4月29日于武英殿草草举行了即位仪式，翌日便撤离北京。
武英殿书局出"殿本"
清兵入关之初，摄政王多尔衮先行抵京，以武英殿作为理事之所。清初武英殿用作皇帝便殿。康熙八年因太和殿、乾清宫等处维修，康熙皇帝曾一度移居武英殿。
从康熙十九年(1680年)开始，清廷在武英殿设立刻书机构，即武英殿书局，直至清末。乾隆三十八年(1773年)，命人将《永乐大典》中摘出的珍本138种排字付印，御赐名《武英殿聚珍版丛书》，世称"殿本"。内容涉及经、史、子、集各类，凝聚着清朝一代内廷众臣的集体智慧。
建福宫花园珍宝收藏地毁于大火
在谈到建福宫花园时，罗哲文老人告诉记者："建福宫花园俗称西花园，始建于乾隆五年。规模仅次于中轴线上的御花园。但是整个建福宫花园在1923年却被一场无名大火焚烧殆尽。防火措施向来完备的故宫怎么会发生这么大规模的火灾？现在分析认为是宫里的太监盗窃珍宝，怕被发现所以放火烧宫。"
据史料记载，乾隆皇帝对建福宫花园非常满意，并将其所珍爱的奇珍异宝收藏于此。嘉庆时曾下令将其全部封存。此后，花园一带一直作为皇家珍宝的收藏地，直到1923年那场大火。
主体建筑号称"迷楼"
故宫文物专家郑连章说："故宫里其他花园如乾隆花园、慈宁宫花园皇家色彩太浓，布局对称，稍显呆板。相比之下建福宫花园就要活泼得多，它融汇了南北园林风格，生活气息更加浓厚。"
郑连章特别提到，"建福宫主体建筑延春阁更是具有极高的审美价值，它的最大特点在于室内装修极具匠心。整个延春阁分为三层，中间是暗层，层与层之间的隔断与连接虚虚实实，繁复万端，因此号称'迷楼'。"
复建图纸颇费心思
"建福宫复建一期工程"于2000年5月31日动工，事隔将近80年，怎么才能保证复建的就是原来那个建福宫花园呢？
捐助此次复建工程的中国文物保护基金会曾向媒体介绍说："为了此次重建，我们制作了非常详尽的重建图纸。这个图纸的根据是：一、溥仪的英文老师庄士敦的著作《紫禁城的黄昏》里的一张黑白照片，刚好是在那场大火的第二天拍的。二、一个欧洲人Siren拍了很多故宫照片，有一张是他在1900年拍的建福宫花园9个建筑中的一个。三、台湾故宫藏的一幅很大的画，是画这个花园的。通过联系，台湾故宫拍了一张照片交给重建工程。四，乾隆后来在故宫的东面建了乾隆花园，由于他很喜欢建福宫，就仿照原样在这个花园又建了那9个建筑，与建福宫基本相同。最重要的一点是中国传统的古建筑是非常规矩的，在雍正时代有一本很详细讲解这些规矩和做法的书、图。"
非开放区概念将长期存在
虽然武英殿、文华殿、建福宫花园等建筑将要在故宫博物院建院80周年的2005年的10月左右向世人揭开面纱，但是为什么故宫仍有那么多区域没有开放呢？罗哲文老人回答说："这些区域之所以没有开放有三个原因：修缮、办公、库房。其中修缮是主要原因。"
罗老接着说："因为故宫的修缮必须慎之又慎，一方面需要制定详尽的方案，另一方面需要巨大的资金。"
故宫有关方面负责人在2002年曾向《三联生活周刊》透露："(故宫大修)经费大约是从现在到2008年每年1亿元人民币，2008年以后的经费另外制定。"
故宫有关方面负责人曾经表示，"故宫非开放区的概念将长期存在"。
来源：中国经济网
Just back from Beijing, Xian, Shanghai....here are some good finds!
Author: Lindsey
Date: 04/19/2004, 10:19 am
Our family of 4 (kids ages 11 and 16) returned recently from a totally fantastic 8 day trip to China. We did a lot in the time we had, but were still able to keep a reasonable pace (and not feel like we were on a forced march.) Coming from Singapore, jet lag was not an issue, so we could hit the ground running from the first day. I made all the arrangements on my own (air, hotels, drivers, etc.) We used Singapore Airlines points to fly SG-Beijing and Shanghai-SG. We used United points to book open jaw tickets on Air China from Beijing-Xian and Xian-Shanghai.
Based on all my research, I was prepared for some things NOT to work according to plan. But I was pleasantly surprised that every single arrangement made in advance not only worked, but in most cases exceeded our expectations.
I will list the things we did and if anyone has specific questions I will try to answer.
Beijing:
We used a guide here. Went around town in taxis, using cards written out by our hotel. Never had a problem.
Stayed at Peninsula Palace. Excellent! Good central location, great service. Got a rate (on www.hoteltravel.com) of $150US per night, that included tax, service and breakfast.
Hutong Tour by rickshaw (a highlight! good way to see it when you are short on time)
Forbidden City (on our own, using audiotour and guidebook)
Summer Palace
Great Wall at Mutianyu (with an English speaking driver and guide)
Jingshan Park (climbed to the top of the hill for great overview of Forbidden City)
Temple of Heaven
Honggiao Market
Silk Alley
Tiananmen Square at sunset for flag lowering
Beijing Restaurants:
The Courtyard (excellent!! loved the cigar bar upstairs with view of Forbidden City)
Red Capital Club (funky, Maoist kitsch, good food, check out the bomb shelter/wine cellar in the courtyard)
Chef DaDong's (good Beijing duck, family style)
Jing (upscale fusion cuisine, sophisticated atmosphere, in the Peninsula Palace Hotel)
Our best "find" in Beijing was our driver, Mr. David Zhang. Speaks excellent English, very comfortable. Reasonable rates and entertaining conversation. I've already sent two more families to him from US, both of whom were very complimentary. You can reach him at info@tourguide.name or call him at 86-010-51298358 ext.1, or skype him at davidzhangfeng or fax him at 86-010-51298358 ext.2. Tell him Lindsey sent you. (BTW, I found him on the internet, he was a great guide.)
Xian:
Flew in one morning and out the next. That was enough time to do what we wanted to do. The only negatives about Xian were the pollution and the traffic, which were both WORSE than Beijing or Shanghai.
We were picked up at the airport by pre-arranged driver and guide, drove about an hour and following a quick lunch stop near the site (great food and cheap!)went straight to the Terracotta Warrior museum. We thought it was totally worth the hassle to get there. Extremely interesting. You can do this without a guide, but I think it would take a little longer.
On the way to the hotel, visited Goose Pagoda and the adjacent monastery.
Stayed at the Hyatt. Not luxurious, but clean and comfortable. Excellent buffet breakfast included in the rate. We had planned to explore the Muslim quarter during the evening, but were too exhausted from the day.
I would highly recommend Clarence Guo, who is both English speaking driver AND guide, a rare combo. If he is available, you can save the cost of having a second person with you all day. You can reach him at clarenceguo@yahoo.com or 013519197819. Clarence was already booked when I emailed him, so he set us up with his brother driving a very nice van (we had all our luggage with us all day since it was too far to drop it at the hotel first) and a terrific female guide, whose name I have misplaced. Even with the two of them, it was less than $US200 for a very long, but well organized day.
Shanghai:
Stayed at the Four Seasons. Good location, great service, loved the buffet breakfast!
Shanghai Art Museum (can't say enough great things about it.....allow at least 4 hours!)
Shopped at Xian Yang Lu (knock-offs) and Dong Tai Lu (antique reproductions)
Walked the Bund, and rode the new little train through the tunnel over to Pudong for the view from the other side. Would only recommend this for families with little kids. Kind of corny.
Drinks at "M On the Bund." Great views. Will go back next time for dinner.
Chinese Acrobat Show at Shanghai Center (it was great....kids loved it and for my husband and me, like being at a live Ed Sullivan show!)
Restaurants:
Several at Xin Tien Di, a newish entertainment complex with lots of dining choices.
La Na Thai (in an lovely old colonial house in the French Concession)
Half Day Tour to the water village at ZhouZhuang. (organized by the hotel, highly recommend it!)
Did not go up any of the tall towers for the view because it was too overcast to see much.
Bottom line.....if you have any doubts about visiting China on your own, you should quit worrying. It's easier than you think, if you do your homework before you go and use common sense when you are there.
We loved every minute of our trip and are already discussing a return visit.
Let me know if you have specific questions on any of the above.
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Author: Kathie
Date: 04/19/2004, 11:00 am
Thanks for a great report, Lindsey. I'm going to print this for my files, as I'm planning a trip to Bejing in the next year.
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Author: kopp
Date: 04/19/2004, 03:56 pm
Thoroughly enjoyed your report. My husband and I have been independent travelers throughout Europe, but now we want to go to Asia but worry about independent vs. tour. This helps quite a bit in the planning. We'd actually like to layover in Honolulu a few days before embarking, but that means taking a connecting flight to PEK. Still have to work out the kinks. But you've given me hope that we won't need to go with a tour. Gread report!
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Author: zoozie (zoozie@nc.rr.com)
Date: 04/19/2004, 08:19 pm
Thanks for the great info. My family of
4 will be in Beijing 6/27-7/1.. I'm now
trying to get hotel res... do four fit in one room? (all over 12.. so '4' adults comes back w/not available).. do
you advise contacting hotel directly?
Appreciate any advise & how to make the
most of 3 full days/4 nights.. thanks!
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Author: Miky
Date: 04/19/2004, 08:58 pm
Dear Lindsey,
I enjoyed VERY MUCH your report. Our family, three adults, are planning to visit China next month. Presently we are in Singapore as I'm a Visiting Professor at NUS. I was wondering if we could talk to you over the phone.
Best regards,
Mordechai Perl
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Author: PeterN_H
Date: 04/19/2004, 09:15 pm
A little search of the postings here will show that the topic of including children over 12 in the room has been discussed quite often.
In general, if you book with an agency you'll pay more for everything. If you book a foreign brand-name hotel via its Web site, you'll general find the best prices that hotel is prepared to offer publicly (the Peninsula Palace, for instance, guarantees that its cheapest published rate is on its website). However, these are always high when booked in advance. Unless you are going to Beijing at certain limited high season periods (which are to do with Chinese holidays, not foreign ones) you'll always get a better rate nearer the time. You'll do slightly better still over the counter. Booking in advance you'll also bump into standard hotel regulations which aren't actually quite the same in China when dealt with on the ground.
Chinese-run Chinese hotels regard putting an extra bed into a room on request as standard procedure, and charge a modest but bargainable fee for doing so. But try to book rooms in advance, and you'll pay as much as twice what you need to. Published prices at the upper end are the same as the Western brands, but little else matches. However, many are comortable enough, but much, much cheaper when rooms are bought over the counter, and politely bargained for.
You have to choose.
Lindsey's method of travelling is a kind of middle way--independent travel stressing convenience over economy. The taxi driver mentioned for Xi'an, for instance, charges very high prices indeed compared to simply taking a taxi from the rank outside the airport.
I'd be interested to know what Mr. Li in Beijing's rates were. In general the Chinese travel industry, from state-owned monolith, via hotel, to private entrepreneur will extract the maximum profit from the fear of the language gap and the ignorance of local costs displayed by most visitors. It's up to you whether you're comfortable with that. A taxi for most day trips from Beijing will cost around Y350 if you bargain for it yourself. Hotels may ask Y1500 for the same service. If a private entrepreneur working via the Internet asks Y800 you may consider it worthwhile for convenience sake, but you'll be paying more than necessary for meals (however cheap they may seem) and for shopping, if you are unwise enough to do any in his or her company.
In China you can do everything yourself, or with the minimum help of local agencies to book the odd ticket, if you want to.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
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Author: gb
Date: 04/19/2004, 09:36 pm
We may have to choose between seeing the Terra Cotta warriors and Beijing/Great Wall. Which do you suggest?
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Author: Neil_Oz
Date: 04/19/2004, 10:41 pm
I'm interested in just how flexible 4/5-star hotel pricing is in China. I know that $150 is cheap by Western standards, but it seems to me to be way out of whack with cost inputs in China (eg, the disparity between Western and Chinese labour costs). Is this another example of the more general approach of ratcheting up prices to the point where the buyer feels good about paying half what they're used to, but twice what the seller can affordably sell at? I know that more modest but still reasonable establishments can usually be bargained down from an advertised (say) $50 to $20-25 or so - are the more upmarket international chains similarly flexible?
(Lindsey, I too enjoyed reading your report - many thanks.)
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Author: PeterN_H
Date: 04/19/2004, 11:35 pm
I haven't seen the reports very recently, but usually only about three of the Beijing five-stars (whether genuine attempts at five-star hotels or Chinese only-in-our-dreams five-stars) actually average a room yield of more than $100 per night. Most rooms are going for far under that, and even on the hotels' websites may be found for as little as $80 or even $60, depending on the time of year and how far in advance they are being booked. Over the counter is always best, but the hotels play on foreigners' perceptions of what a good hotel 'should' cost, and their fear of showing up without a booking (the best plan from a price point of view in most cases) or their belief that this would be too much of a hassle. Some Chinese 'five-stars' are selling to Chinese tour groups for as little as $35-45 a night, but to foreigners who book over the web or through an agent for in excess of $100. One manager friend of mine estimates that the actual real cost to him of having someone in a room is around $25 in Beijing, but most of that overhead stays in place when the room is empty. Almost any sum is better than nothing.
For foreign-run hotels best rates are on the website a few days before if the hotel is not nearly full, as there's a fear that no one will take them. Front desk staff usually have a licence to undercut those a little further to the persistent bargainer obviously willing to walk away who wants to stay that night when occupancy is nowhere near 90% or so. Chinese-run 'five-star' hotels almost never give real prices in public or on websites, but over the counter can be bargained down just as vigorously as their three-star or two-star counterparts.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
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Author: Neil_Oz
Date: 04/20/2004, 04:19 am
Thanks, Peter - that confirms my suspicions. I don't think of myself as a tightwad; I'd be more than happy for the excess to end up in the hands of the staff, but as we all know it's lining other pockets, not excluding shareholders in international chains, most of whom are not too close to the breadline. I wish there was some way of getting the message across to naive foreign visitors that 25% of the price they pay in their home countries is more than a fair number.
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Author: Lindsey
Date: 04/20/2004, 05:58 am
Ok, in order of the questions....
We always book 2 rooms when we travel with our kids. It's a decision we made when they became old enough to stay in a room without us, that we would henceforth budget all trips that way. Sometimes it means staying a day less or in a slightly cheaper hotel. But it keeps everyone in a better mood. We find after a long day of intense sightseeing, hiking, shopping or whatever we have been doing, we each need our own little corner to relax and regroup for the next day's adventure.
Miky, I sent an email to the address you posted, so you can contact me directly via the return address.
Peter, with regard to pricing on hotels in China, I'm sure you are right about walking up and getting a better price on the spot. However as a single professional traveler, you probably have not had the joyful experience of dragging a tired, cranky family and all their luggage, around a strange city, wasting precious vacation hours trying to save couple of bucks on a hotel room. Booking in advance is a convenience for which I expect to pay more. I had only 3.5 days in Beijing. It would have been ludicrous to waste even 2 hours of it haggling with hotel clerks.
Do I think $150 per night, (including buffet breakfast) for a Peninsula Hotel, which was absolutely 5 star quality by any Western standard, is reasonable? You bet I do. Is it reasonable based on the cost of labor in China, or what a Chinese tourist would pay? Of course not, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. I'm not a Chinese tourist.
BTW, regardless of what the Peninsula guarantees, the rate I got on the website I used was about $11 better than the BEST rate offered on Peninsula's own website at the time, and their rate did NOT include breakfast. My advice to anyone booking their own travel is to check the hotel's own website first and then SHOP AROUND. There are many wholesalers who buy up large blocks of hotel rooms at highly discounted rates and resell them even cheaper than you get it from the hotel. That's the deal I was lucky enough to find. Timing is everything. Sometimes the hotel has the best deal, sometimes not. It is ALWAYS worth checking.
With regard to the hiring of transportation, Peter you totally missed the point. OF COURSE I could have hired a crummy little taxi with a non-English speaking driver at the Xian airport for less money! But we had less than 24 hours on the ground in Xian and I did not want to spend half of it trying to communicate with a driver. We had a comfortable van, with a driver who guarded our luggage, while our very competent English speaking guide helped us to get the maximum use of our time at the Terracotta Museum and Goose Pagoda. Again, it was comfort and convenience for which I was willing to pay. But it's apples and oranges to compare our experience to picking up a local taxi at the airport.
Same thing in Beijing. Obviously I could have booked an cramped little taxi with a silent driver for less money. Instead we went in a super clean Audi, with a driver who pointed out many interesting sights as we traveled. Mr. Li charged us 650 RMB for the Great Wall trip and some stops in town later that day, but he also got out of the car at the Wall, showed us the two different lift options for getting up there, and helped us buy our tickets (no, he did not get a commission....we paid what was posted on the sign...he just explained the various pricing options). Yes, we paid extra for service and comfort, but it was still not exorbitant.
Bottom line.....I don't view being a tourist as a competitive sport, with the prize going to whomever can do it the cheapest. That is so NOT the point of why I travel. My gauge of a successful trip is did I see as much as possible in the time available, did I learn something about a new culture, did I receive good value for the $$ spent and did it leave me wanting more?
Happily, the answer to all 4 questions for this trip is a resounding YES!
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Author: zoozie (zoozie@nc.rr.com)
Date: 04/20/2004, 10:29 am
Thank you Lindsey for such great info..
still looking for hotels, so very happy
to see your last message. I have e-mailed Li and heard back from him. May
I also e-mail directly with you? I want
to understand how to make best use of our 3 days in Beijing.. possibly hire Li
two, or maybe just one? Also, what to
tell him now as summer is quite busy there. Many thanks, Susan
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Author: Lindsey
Date: 04/20/2004, 11:14 am
Hi Susan,
To be honest, I think the only thing you really need a driver for in Beijing is the Great Wall trip, and if you want to ride back and forth to the airport in comfort. (Yes, you can do that cheaper in a local taxi but for 120RMB or about $US15 for Mr. Li's service, why would you want to?)
You can do everything else in local taxis, as long as you have all your destinations for the day written out in Chinese characters and pinyin (English transliteration) so you can point to the right one. That gives you more flexibility about how much time you spend in each location.
Here is how we divided up the 3.5 days.
Arrived at hotel first evening at 5pm and walked straight over to flag lowering ceremony in Tiananmen Square. Very magical, when all the lights around the square popped on just as the flag came down.
Next morning we did the hutong tour which ended at lunch time and we ate in fantastic local noodle shop, recommended by our concierge, that was near the ending point of the hutong tour. After lunch we took rickshaws to Jingshan Park, then walked to Forbidden City and spent the rest of the day there.
The next day was Great Wall until about 2pm and then shopping at Silk Alley in the afternoon.
Last day was Summer Palace for the whole morning and then Temple of Heaven and shopping at Honggiao Market in the afternoon.
I don't think we could have fit in much more without running ourselves a bit ragged.
That's why I definitely want to go back!!
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Author: PeterN_H
Date: 04/20/2004, 12:34 pm
The response to my posting above is impertinent and overly personal, and that posting needs re-reading.
It is remarked quite clearly that convenience is stressed over economy in the trip whose details have been given, and that is entirely up to the individual traveller. No one has suggested (well, only one person) that this is a competitive sport, but there are many other options for independent travel, about which other readers would no doubt like to know; many would also like to know about local pricing.
The posting merely mentions some alternatives for those who don't want to pay double (and not, in some cases, to known scam artists and spammers).
The choices are not between one person's clean car at twice the price of another scruffy, dirty vehicle, but between one clean car with a driver who may speak some English, and innumerable choices of clean car (although there are plenty of dirty ones, too) with a driver who probably doesn't. Of course, many will feel too encumbered or too short of time to make their own arrangements, or simply not be interested in doing so. Others will find it part of the fun.
On hotels, of course shopping around is always a good idea. But some, such as the Peninsula Palace, guarantee in writing that they offer the lowest price on their websites, and if given the opportunity will explain why like is not being compared with like, if you appear to have a lower price elsewhere, and offer you the same thing at a lower price. It's always worth going back to the hotel with whatever you have.
Apparently on hotel prices a difference of a few dollars matters, so for many it does on airport transfers, too. For every reader who says, "What's $15 to me?", there are many who don't see the point of paying $15 for something they can have effortlessly for $8, and others for whom $15 is also nothing, but who would prefer not to pay a double foreigner price on principle. No one is right or wrong, and each is free to make his or her choice, but most would like to hear about all their choices before deciding.
While a car is indeed the easiest option to some Great Wall destinations, it is possible to reach one section directly by air-conditioned express bus for only US$1 each way, with no limit on the time spent there, and there are less convenient but perfectly practical public transport options and bus tours for the other sites. One resident foreigner runs a good Volvo bus trip with lunch included which visits Mutianyu and Simatai, for instance. In passing, whether or not a car driver gets commission on tickets is not visible to the buyer--the commission is a kick-back from the site and the ticket price remains the same, but this is more an issue for tour groups in bus-loads rather than individual travellers in cars.
It's excellent to hear someone who has tried it firmly assert that independent travel in China is perfectly possible especially when so many visitors to this site seem automatically to assume that it isn't. But hearing what the indendent and organised travel options are, rather than simply assuming that one's own way is the best or only way, is part of what this forum is about.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
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Author: rhkkmk
Date: 04/20/2004, 01:05 pm
lindsey---great report with lots of good info for the rest of us
bob
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Author: zoozie (zoozie@nc.rr.com)
Date: 04/22/2004, 09:03 am
Hi Lindsey,
Thanks for your very helpful reply, our
time in Beijing looks the same as yours.
It sounds like Li took you to the hotel as well as Great Wall trip. (Did you arrange airport ride ahead of time?) I was considering 2 days tour with him; now will ask him what sites that would involve. I've reserved rooms in Capital
Hotel, not far from Peninsula, near Tianamen Sq., $92w/bkfst, 2 rooms (your
advice with 2 older kids sounds wise!)
Also used website mentioned to book, and
appreciate so much you taking the time
to help others sort things out!
Thanks again...susan
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Author: rhkkmk
Date: 04/22/2004, 10:40 am
we enjoyed our visit to the summer palace even more than our trip to the wall....don't miss it
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Author: easytraveler
Date: 04/22/2004, 11:11 am
Lindsey: Thanks so much for sharing! What a great report! And what fortitude - to travel with two teenagers!
I'm glad to see that China is getting easier for independent travelers. Your experiences are an inspiration for me.
Peter: I'll be in China this summer and am more than willing to try doing hotels as you have suggested - i.e., negotiating upon arrival. I'll be there in June. Would this be peak travel time? Would it be better to have reservations? My travel plans haven't jelled yet, but I'll be in the Northeast Three Provinces, and then either Chinese Turkestan or along the coast. Any place that it would be difficult to get a room in June if no reservations are made?
We'll be two adults, which is why I'm willing to chance it. If I had two kids in tow, I'd do things Lindsey's way. Too many opportunities to tear my hair out if things go wrong - LOL!
Again, Lindsey, thanks a mill - great report!
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Author: Lindsey
Date: 04/22/2004, 07:24 pm
Susan,
I did not actually hire Mr. Li until we arrived in Beijing and I had the chance to speak to him by phone. I wanted to make sure the English he wrote in his emails was really him talking and not someone else.
My husband has a business associate living in Beijing, who, as a professional courtesy, since it was our first visit there, sent a car and driver to the airport to take us to the hotel. That helped us get a smooth start, without having to deal with local taxis until we had a chance to catch our breath, change money, etc.
On our next trip, I will just have Mr. Li pick us up. That might work well for you too, as you could discuss plans for the next few days during your ride into town.
BTW, one thing I forgot to mention in my first post. A few people on this board had talked about a boat ride that you could take from (I think) the south exit of the Summer Palace back into the city and be dropped off at the zoo. That sounded quite appealing to us. So we found the correct exit, and there was the kisosk for boat tickets (closed!) and there were the boats (all tied up and going nowhere). It appeared this must be a seasonal thing, open only during the busier times. It's worth having the concierge in your hotel make a call ahead of time, to see if it will be open, if you plan to do this. The exit where we ended up is a VERY long walk from anything. Fortunately, there was a guy with a car (not even a real taxi) who was sitting there waiting for people like us, who did relish the long walk back to the main entrance. We negotiated a deal with him to take us back into the city for the same taxi fare we paid coming out to Summer Palace. So we missed the boat ride, but the road back apralleled the canals where the boat would have gone, for quite a distance, so we sort of got the idea of what we might have seen.
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Author: Lindsey
Date: 04/22/2004, 07:26 pm
Oops, that should read " did NOT relish the long walk back."
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Author: zoozie (zoozie@nc.rr.com)
Date: 04/27/2004, 12:07 pm
Thanks for all the info Lindsey. I had
a strange reply from Li's last e-mail..
not sure if I offended him w/questions
about what 2 days tour would include..
he said 'i would say anything i agree..
your is my god. i listen to you'.. and have time reserved.. Any ideas what that
might mean?? I'm certainly wondering
if one day tour is better than two!
thanks, susan
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Author: Pauli
Date: 04/27/2004, 12:14 pm
Lindsey,
What was your general impression of Beijing? Did you like it? Would you recommend visiting Beijing? I've booked a trip to Beijing next month, and I don't know what to expect.
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Author: Lindsey
Date: 04/27/2004, 07:57 pm
Susan,
Not sure what to make of Mr. Li's reply. Sometimes I think the Chinese try to take a colloquialism from their own language and translate it literally. The effect can be a bit startling, since, as in English, some things just don't translate.
If you feel unsure with Mr. Li, why don't you book him early on in your stay just for the Great Wall trip and then see how you feel about using him for other things. We did the hutong tour and Forbidden City the first day, and it was a good combo. then Great Wall the second day. I did not use Mr. Li again until we went back to the airport, but only because we really did not need him. I found it totally convenient doing all the other sightseeing and shopping around town using regular taxis.
Pauli, I'm not sure exactly what type of information you are looking for. In general terms, yes I like Beijing very much and I would recommend it. For me it was a great starting point for beginning to understand the history and culture of China. You need to be prepared for a very big, busy and fairly polluted city. It is filled with huge public squares and government buildings, that are clearly meant to both impress and intimidate. The magic is in surprising places....the lights coming on at sunset in Tiananmen Square, the dreamy views back to the shore while taking the little dragon boat across the lake at the Summer Palace, exchanging satisfied grins with local folks over steaming hot bowls of noodles in a little restaurant at lunchtime, watching your 11 year old trying to exactly frame the Temple of Heaven in a photograph. I think Beijing is a place that will mean different things to different people, and it certainly has lots to keep you busy!
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Author: zoozie (zoozie@nc.rr.com)
Date: 05/06/2004, 01:26 pm
Thanks again Lindsey for your thoughts.
Li has written that 2 days tour would include Summer Palace, Forbidden City,
Lama Temple & Temple of Heaven.. didn't
mention Great Wall. Sounds like some
are walking distance (Capital Hotel, near Tianamen Sq.) Not sure if 2 days
would be limiting or best way to see most??? Any suggestions from anyone?
Thanks,
susan
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Author: EdEdwards
Date: 05/07/2004, 11:44 am
How much does someone like Mr. Li charge for a one or two day tour? I've been finding various websites with prices all over the place -- but they're in general agreement about charging about 50% more for a day that takes you out to the Wall. Thanks.
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Author: onthego2
Date: 06/29/2004, 11:32 pm
Your report is GREAT! I travel the world with my 2 daughters (6 & 11) and I often do all the travel arrangements. We have an opportunity to go to China this July and was considering engaging in a tour service, until I saw your post. Is there anyway I can email you directly to more information from you? You can email me at sunni@sohappy.net. Thanks.
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Author: BillT
Date: 07/12/2004, 01:32 pm
Lindsey- tell us more about the shopping venues in Shanghai.My wife likes to shop shop shop- with a visit to a temple/palace/museum thrown in once in a while.
Did you bargian there? Are there markets- day/night. Did they speak enghlish etc.
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Author: dsmithberg
Date: 09/11/2004, 12:21 pm
We returned from Beijing in August 2004. Thanks Lindsey for your great advice. We used Mr. Li at Beijingtaxi.com and found that he was excellent. He picked us up at 8 am and took us everywhere till 9 pm, including places where we had not planned to see. He was able to get us in the "back door" in many places by having connections and getting tickets without the long waits on line. He took us to some fantastic restaurants and even ordered our food for us. We told him what we liked, and he did the rest. Sometimes it was hit and miss, but on the whole, he was right on the mark. Our 13 & 17 year old kids loved him and enjoyed the many stories he told. He was agreeable to anything we asked him. (stop at the bank, special shopping items we wanted, etc.) It was like having a personal limo at our beckon call and very reasonable. We also had 2 rooms, which was not my initial desire, but I was unable to secure rooms via the internet for 4 people per room. In the end, we did appreciate the extra space and bathroom. Since rooms are relatively inexpensive, this was the best choice for us. We flew Korean Air and had wonderful flights. Comfortable seats and extra nice attendants.
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Author: Lindsey
Date: 09/12/2004, 06:18 am
Dsmithber....so glad to hear you had good service from Mr. Li! I have sent several more friends on tour with him since I last wrote and all of them enjoyed his services as well.
Onthego2, sorry to have missed replying to your posting. I was traveling with minimal computer access all summer. I assume you have completed your trip by now. Hope it was a good one!
BillT - I did not do a whole lot of shopping in Shanghai due to time constraints. Xian Yang Lu is all about knock-offs of all kinds. Purses, clothing, shawls etc. Be wary of what they try to pass of as pashimina. It's NOT. Tell them you want to see the REAL pashminas and all of a sudden better quality merchandise appears from under the table.
Dong Tai Lu is all about antique reproductions. They will try to tell you everything is a real antique. NONE of it is. but if you like the items strictly for their decorative value, then it's fine. In the small amount of time I had, I bought a Tibetan drum, a large celadon platter, some beautiful leather jewelry boxes and some very cute little cricket cages.
Bargain like mad at both of them. In most cases, I paid only 30-40% of the original asking price. Had I had more time, I'm sure I could have gotten it for less. Good bargaining takes time.
The vendors spoke just enough English to quote a price and tout the value of the merchandise. In some cases, the calculator became the universal language.
Not sure if the markets are open at night...I'm sure the hotel concierge can tell you.
Have fun!
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Author: tripgirl
Date: 09/12/2004, 10:38 pm
dsmithberg and Lindsey:
Questions about Mr. Robinson Li for Beijing:
1. Lindsey, I know you used him for the Great Wall. dsmithberg, what did you do with him for all the hours you described? Sounds like he also a guide? Or just a driver? We really LOVE guides and I know that there is a controversy about using them in China, but nonetheless we love the company of someone who can get us in places and assist us. Is Mr Li the right person for this?
2. How early do I need to book him; we are going to be there next August ( already booked Ratt in Bangkok for the same trip).
3. Lindsey, I would like to say you referred me to him; does he know you by Lindsey; do I need your last name?
4. Best way is to e mail him?
5. Is there any place or anything he won't do?
6. Prices?
Many thanks!!
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Author: fromMA
Date: 09/13/2004, 11:00 am
Hi Tripgirl
I used Robinson Li in my July trip to beijing based on Lindseys post. Robinson Li was terriffic, very accomodating and anxious to please. He took us to the Great Wall at Mityanu (sp)among some other destinations. He charged us $100 US per day which I thought was fair. We corresponded via email before we arrived and he did everything promised and more. For example my wife mentioned she wanted to see a small rural village. He not only took us to one but got us invited to an old farmers house to see what it looked like....truly a memorable experience. If you want more info feel free to email me at leng@ix.netcom.com.
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Author: Lindsey
Date: 09/13/2004, 12:18 pm
Hi Tripgirl,
I believe Mr. Li will remember me as Lindsey. You can remind him that we stayed at the Peninsula with our 2 daughters and that I have sent him several friends from Singapore.
You can reach him at robinsonlitour@hotmail.com or Beijingtaxi.com or call his mobile at 13801361383 or fax him at 86-010-64035202.
He charged us 650 RMB for our Great Wall day. I bargained with him a bit by phone in advance, more to test his English skills than to get the price down.
I don't think there is any place he won't take you, as long as it is legal and the price is negotiated in advance to everyone's satisfaction.
I introduced Ratt to this board as well, so if you like Mr. Li, you will probably like Ratt.
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Author: fromMA
Date: 09/13/2004, 12:43 pm
hey Lindsey...Thanks for your original post..partially based on your reccomendations we used Robinson Li and stayed at the Peninsula Palace while in Beijing..both terriffic recomendations.thanks for helping
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Author: tripgirl
Date: 09/13/2004, 01:44 pm
Thanks!
from MA and Lindsey:
Did you just use Mr Li for out of town trips? How many days did you spend with him? $100 a day is very reasonable. Again, is he just a driver or can he provide good commentary like a guide would? No need to a guide even if Mr Li is just a driver?
Also, we are thinking about the Peninsula or the St Regis ( we have some Starwood points). If we choose the Peninsula I read they have Rolls Royce Service to and from the airport; still true? did either of you use it; is it just outrageously priced or is it included( doubt that!)
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Author: fromMA
Date: 09/13/2004, 02:20 pm
Hi Tripgirl
We emailed Robinson Li back and forth so much we felt comfortable when he asked if we wanted him to do the airport run. He charged $20 US each way but I have to admit the Rolls tempted me. We ended up using him for 2 full days, and I mean full. He was prompt and didnt take us back to the hotel untel he was assured we saw all we wanted. Im a nut when it comes to planning so I had a pretty through itininery when setting things up. The great Wall day (2 hours from the hotel) we went to lunch at a roadside restaurant and the afformentioned rural village with an unplanned (but appreciated)stop at the Ming tombs. The next day was a tour of the hutongs, a stop at the Pearl Market, the Temple of Heaven and The Summer Palace with a stop at another non tourist restaurant where we were treated very well.
Mr. Li is personable and eager to exceed expectations but be forewarned that his english is far from perfect . We were fortunate that he happened to bring along his 22 yr old son and we hit it off and he ended up being an unofficial guide....that was pure luck.
The Peninsula palace was in a central location...abiut a 20 min walk to the subway and a 40 min walk to The forbidden city. Any other questions, just email me.....good luck.
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Author: tripgirl
Date: 09/14/2004, 10:13 am
fromMA,
I just tried e mailing you and your spam blocker kicked in. I tried to be added to your list, but it did not work.
So basically all I wanted to ask in addition was:
1. Your itinerary is EXACTLY what I want to do with Mr Li too. Does he remember you well enough to use your name and request the same itinerary?
2. Can I ask you how much you tipped him? I know that tipping is not really expected in Asia, but I could not dream of not tipping someone like him for taking care of us. also how did you pay him? At the end or beginning of your time with him?
3. How far in advance should I e mail him to set this all up. We are going next August.
Thanks a mil.....
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Author: Poppa
Date: 09/16/2004, 01:42 pm
What's with Peter N-H's posting of 4-20?
I searched and searched and saw nothing "overly-personal" "impertinent" anywhere.
Is he "The Last Emperor" or something?
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Author: dsmithberg
Date: 09/26/2004, 04:16 pm
When you book Mr. Li, tell him your list of "must see" and he will map out your time. Along the way, he will throw in additional places that were very interesting, for example..silk factory, shopping places, etc. At the end of the time with him, he told us what we owed him. We too, were in sort of a dilema as to how much to tip him. We gave him 10% of the bill, the reason was because this was all the RMB we had left when he dropped us off at the airport! My kids were upset and wanted to tip him more!
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Author: tripgirl
Date: 09/26/2004, 05:53 pm
dsmithberg, Lindsey, from MA;
I already booked Mr. Li! He was SO prompt in his reply to me and given the fact that we are not going to be there until august, 2005, he still was so accommodating!!! He could have easily just put me as a lower priority given I booked so WAY in advance, but he did not!! A very good sign!
I already gave him a 2 day itinerary and can already tell he is going to be fabulous!
Many thanks all.. One more thing crossed off my list!!!
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Author: johanna
Date: 09/26/2004, 09:29 pm
Hi Lindsey: Enjoyed your report very much. I am going to Singapore, HongKong and Thailand in Dec for 3 wks. Not going to make it to Beijing this trip as I think it will be too cold. You mentioned a person "Ratt in Thailand. I would love his information, fees and any advice about weather and where to stay in these areas centrally located. I would love to have a driver in Bangkok. I have many guide books but I enjoy personal recommendations and have done well on this Board. My first time to Asia. Many thanks, Johanna
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Author: BillT
Date: 09/27/2004, 08:45 am
Johanna:
Here is Ratt's email:
rat_bkk@hotmail.com
Ratt ( a woman) is a great driver for Bangkok. We used her in April of this year. Do book her well in advance. Tell her Bill Toliver sent you. She has a web site at:
www.ratservice.com
She will take you wherever you want to go and she stays with you. She has cold bottled water in her air conditioned toyota and knows her way around the traffic. If you go to the nara Phand craft store she can get you a 5% discount as the prices there are fixed- but they have great quality stuff. While she like full days, she will accomodate 1/2 days-thats how we used her either mornings or afertnoons.
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Author: johanna
Date: 09/27/2004, 08:20 pm
Thank you Bill for Rat's email. It sounds like she will be busy. I like the idea of someone waiting. Will it be as humid in Jan?
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Author: hobbes
Date: 09/28/2004, 06:03 am
Johana it will be humid but Dec-Jan are Bkk's best months. In case u cannot get Ratt try Julie at www.julietaxis.com
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Author: dutchTrvlr
Date: 10/01/2004, 09:21 am
Thanks Lindsey for your report!
I booked a trip at the end of this month and mr. Li looks like the person I'm looking for.
Thanks everyone for sharing your remarks.
HenkR
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Author: nickybox
Date: 10/05/2004, 09:04 am
How and where did you get the pedicab tour? They offer one from our hotel but it is very expensive.
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Author: WuWuWu
Date: 10/26/2004, 04:58 pm
Just returned from a week in Beijing. Have to comment on Robinson Li. We hired him for one day. He took us to two parts of the Great Wall, to lunch at a family restaurant in the country and the Ming Tombs. I felt like we drove most of the day. He was irritated most of the day. First, he didn't like coming to the Crowne Plaza because it was 45 minutes from the city. Then he got irritated because we had to be back to the hotel by 3:00 (although I had already explained that in an email) He also called me the day after and said I booked him for another day when, in fact, I changed the day from Monday to Sunday. (again in an email he acknowledged receiving) He was very rude when I explained that I didn't need him on Monday. Maybe it was because we were two women. I got the impression that Chinese men don't respect women. We were going to book him for another day but after the first day we decided we didn't want to go through that again. He did speak English but he didn't tell us much about the places we were visiting. Anyway, I used him after reading some of the reviews on this site and I thought I needed to tell what my experience was. The rest of the trip was great.
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Author: sadiegirl
Date: 10/27/2004, 12:12 pm
WuWuWu, thanks so much for posting your experience. I, too, had read the posts about Li and was debating whether or not to contact him. I'm leaving for Beijing next week on a very last-minute trip. I figure that my husband and I can handle T. Square, Forbidden City, and other in-city sites on our own, but I'm trying to determine the best way to get to the Great Wall for a day. If you hadn't used Li, in hindsight, do you have an idea as to what you might have done instead? Also, if you have the time, I would really appreciate hearing your general impressions of the city and its people. I'm alternately excited and worried when I read some of the guide books. Am I going to someplace that's reasonably hospitable, or someplace where the people snicker at me and rip me off (esp. the taxi drivers) (the impressions given by some of the books)? Also, any restaurants that you particularly liked or disliked?
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Author: tripgirl
Date: 10/27/2004, 10:46 pm
wuwuwu,
I already booked Mr Li for our stay next aug.
He e mailed me so promptly and was ever so gracious through his e mail. So I am looking forward to our time with him.
Maybe fromMA and Lindsey can comment further? sorry you had a less than pleasant experience.
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Author: fromMA
Date: 10/31/2004, 11:29 am
I can only speak from my experience with Robinson Li. He was personable, on time and exceeded our expectations. He may have had a bad day (days) which we all have and in a service business can be disasterous. I dont deny your experience. I can only add that in dealing with other cultures, ive learned to be exact and try to leave no room for misinterpretations.
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Author: fromMA
Date: 10/31/2004, 11:39 am
one more thought....Robinson Li never held himself out to me as a guide...I think his web page makes note of guides you can hire...he's technically just a driver. He was very talkative and explanatory in the car but once we got to a site he left us on our own.....which was not a surprise to me.
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Author: WuWuWu
Date: 11/01/2004, 03:10 pm
sadiegirl: We didn't have any problems getting anywhere we wanted to go. We just went through the concierge and they took care of it. They let us book their bus for the day for $200.00 and we were gone at least 8 hours with 10 people. They also told him where we wanted to go and wrote everything in English and Chinese. It was so much less stressful that way. We really didn't have any bad experiences with the people. In fact, we enjoyed them very much. I spent over an hour talking with a student outside the Pearl Market that wanted to practice his English. It was one of the most memorable times I had. Don't worry, everything will work out fine. You will enjoy yourself. Note: when you go shopping at the Hongqiao Market (sp?) you have to ask for the name brand stuff. (Gucci, Prada, Northface, etc.) They have it, they just can't put it out or they will shut them down. Have fun!
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Author: WuWuWu
Date: 11/01/2004, 03:16 pm
sadiegirl: All of the taxis we were in had meters and we had them print out the amount before we would pay. They did add on the toll road fees which you can see the amount when you go through. They could take you the long route I guess, but it is reasonably cheap for a taxi and the difference couldn't be much. Example: from Hongqiao market to our hotel was anywhere from $7.00 to $10.00 and it was at least 45 minutes depending on traffic. Rush hour traffic can be horrendous. Try to plan around it if possible.
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Author: Neil_Oz
Date: 11/02/2004, 03:40 pm
sadiegirl, during a recent week in Beijing we found the cabbies unfailingly good-humoured and honest. Twice in Shanghai we were delivered to the wrong hotel and despite the fact that my lousy pronunciation no doubt contributed to the problem, the drivers knocked the final fare down to about what it would have been without the diversion, and without having to be asked. The only "cabs" to be avoided at all costs are the non-legit ones that lurk around the Summer Palace in particular and identifiable from the fact that they use touts, and don't have the usual driver's registration card displayed behind the windscreen.
No cabbies (that we found) speak English, but if you have your destination written in Chinese, or can point to a place on the readily available tourist map that has street and attraction names in both Chinese characters and Pinyin you should have no problems at all.
We found the people of Beijing generally gregarious, courteous and helpful. We did a lot of exploring on foot and never felt even slightly uncomfortable, although you'll attract some curious looks if you wander into non-touristy areas. Definitely no "sniggers", even if you may occasionally represent a little free enttertainment.
We liked the Liqun Roast Duck Restaurant, which is in a hutong area south of Tian An Men Square. It's busy, so get your hotel to book you in - it's a well-known place.
We contented ourselves with a day tour to the Ming Tombs and the Great Wall at Badaling, which we booked through our hotel and cost Y160 (US$20) pp. Interestingly, we found that the other foreign tourists on the bus had paid almost double this price, Y300 pp. The difference, obviously, was that almost all the other guests in our hotel were Chinese, so we got the benefit of the real, rather than dumb-foreigner, price.
As elsewhere, of course there are people who'll see a relatively wealthy foreigner as fair game, and of course you can be ripped off now and again if you're not paying attention, but despite this we didn't feel unduly hassled in China.
If you're going to spend more than a couple of days in China I recommend buying a phrase book (the Dorling Kindersley is good), bone up on basic pronunciation and acquire a few words and simple phrases - it's more a matter of politeness than an attempt at meaningful communication, but all part of the fun IMO.
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Author: consul10t
Date: 09/26/2005, 08:59 pm
Disappointed in Robinson Li. I contracted ahead of time for him to do 2 airport pickups, Great Wall (drop off at Jinshanling, pick up at Simatai) and a full day Summer Palace / Lama Temple / Hutong tour. I never once met him! He sent a non-English speaking driver for everything. On the plus side, the driver he sent was always on-time and drove safely.
I wasn't looking for a tour guide, but I did expect to be able to communicate at least where and when to meet at the beginning and end of tour days. No such luck. Also be aware that the only thing included in those tours is the driver - all admission fees, the hutong rickshaw driver, a tourist trap tea tasting you're dropped off at, etc. are on you.
My advice: if you contract with Robinson Li, make certain you are going to get Robinson Li. Negotiate a discounted rate ahead of time if he sends anyone else.
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Author: tripgirl
Date: 09/26/2005, 09:09 pm
So sorry for your experience. See my reply to you in the other post you also responded to.
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Author: wanttogotothailand
Date: 10/17/2005, 07:52 pm
Hi,
Can anyone help me with this dilemma?
We have one night in Bejing ( which in all reality equates to a few hours ). My husband and I arrive from Bangkok around 7:00 on Saturday night. We are going to the Great Wall Sheraton. We have to be back at the airport at 2:00 o'clock to check in for our flight back to Toronto at 17:45. How can we see a bit of Bejing and not have to go back to our hotel for the bags first. We thought of hiring a driver to take us to the forbidden city and taking us directly to the airport. We asked our hotel to check into this. The rate given to us by our hotel for a driver picking us up at our hotel at 7:30, taking us to the Forbidden city and finally back to the airport by 2:00 is 1400 Yuan. Does this seem reasonable? I have no idea what the distance is from the Great Wall Sheraton to the forbidden city and from the forbidden city to the airport Does anyone have this info?
Are there any closer things that we could go and see? Any suggestions/info would be great.
Thanks a lot
Cheryl
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Author: rkkwan
Date: 10/18/2005, 12:51 am
Cheryl - The Great Wall Sheraton is 7 miles NE of Forbidden City. It's on the way to the airport, which is another 15 miles from the hotel.
You can simply leave luggage in hotel, take taxi to city center, take taxi back to hotel, and take another taxi to airport. For a fraction of the cost of the hotel car.
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Author: LittleNell
Date: 10/23/2005, 10:36 am
Is there a problem in China recharging your battery for a digital camera? What type of converter did you use if you had a digital? I have heard this is a real problem. Thanks. Little Nell
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Author: rkkwan
Date: 10/23/2005, 11:20 am
LittleNell - You may find 2-3 different types of plugs in a hotel. Flat two-prong ones (like the ones in Japan), round pins (Europena style), and UK-styled three thick squares. The best way is to get an adapter kit that has all three.
Voltage is 220v, but all modern digital camera's charger can accept 110-220. So, no need to have a voltage converter.
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Author: cnoo333
Date: 11/01/2005, 06:01 am
Hi, I am evelyn. I will be travelling the same route as you with my two teenage kids. I am surprised that you can use your united mileage for the open jaw ticket. I called them up but was told that the total mileage for the open jaw ticket must not exceed the shortest single route ticket and since the trip from beijing to xian and then to shanghai exceeds by far I am not allowed to do it. They can only issue me a BEijing xian return and a xian shanghai return. Please enlighten me how you manage to do it. By the way can three persons fit into a double room at the Hyatt in xian? They do not have triple room so I wonder how comfortable it is if we were to ask for extra bed. I am trying to contact clarence guo. We are flying into xian by the 7 am flight. We are planning to go from the airport straight to sightseeing or do we have time to go to the hotel first. I am not sure whether I should take the 11.45 am flight the next day or the 3 pm. Do you think that if we were to take the 11.45 am flight we are able to cover all the 'must see' sights.Please advise. Thanks evelyn
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Author: Lindsey
Date: 11/06/2005, 01:04 am
Hi Evelyn,
I live in Singapore and booked the open jaw tickets through the United office here. There is a wonderful agent there named Pakiam...her number is 65-6873-3588. She has helped me with many complicated bookings with United, using FF points. If there is a way to make it happen, she will be able to do it. However, we did travel in March 2004 and the rules may have changed since then.
I am no longer recommending Clarence Guo because two friends who used him at my recommendation had quite negative experiences with him. There are also several people on this board who had problems with him. (Do a search on his name and you can read about it.) I would look for another guide.
The rooms at the Hyatt in Xian are quite small. Not sure if you could fit a rollaway bed in one. but if you got a room with two double beds, perhaps you could manage that way.
The flights you take will depend on how much you want to see besides the warriors. I would go directly there from the airport. It's an hour in the wrong direction to go to the hotel first. After the warriors, you should still have time to see the Goose Pagoda or Muslim quarter. So unless there is something else you want to do, you can take the 11:45 flight the next day.
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Author: Marija
Date: 11/06/2005, 08:40 am
We had an "executive" room at the Hyatt in Xian and it was very large. It could certainly sleep three. However, the Hyatt is pretty far from the center of the old town and if we were to return I would look for something closer to the Drum tower.
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Author: 111op
Date: 11/29/2005, 01:21 pm
Hi Lindsey, was taking a quick look at your report. Was curious to know how you felt about Beijing vs. Shanghai. Your Shanghai bit seemed a bit weak on attractions. Did you like Beijing better?
Thanks.
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Author: Lindsey
Date: 11/29/2005, 06:37 pm
I found them equally interesting in totally different ways.
As one guide told us..."Xian is China's ancient history, Beijing is its recent history and Shanghai is its future. To begin to understand China, you must see all three places."
Shanghi has a certain buzz, an energy that I found fasinating. Much more sophisticated than Beijing. Beijing is full of massive grey govt buildings meant to intimidate and impress. Shanghai is one amazing new high rise tower after another, all lit in different colors at night....I spent much time looking out my hotel room window at the amazing architecture.
I found the shopping in Shanghai to be better than Beijing and many more interesting restaurants.
Bottom line....they are really different. If you can only see one, I would choose Beijing, because monuments like the Great Wall and Forbidden City are a once in a lifetime experience. But if at all possible, I would do both.
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Author: 111op
Date: 11/29/2005, 06:57 pm
Thanks for the reply, Lindsey. Looks like Beijing is winning so far. I've already booked my ticket for Shanghai, but may book a r/t between Shanghai and Beijing.
Did you seeing the Ming/Qing tombs near Beijing? I only just read about them today.
Maybe I should be a little more aggressive.
I've a Sunday midday to a Thursday early afternoon, so about 4 days. You had 8 days, but you went to Xian also (on the other hand, you only spent 1 day in Xian).
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Author: Lindsey
Date: 11/30/2005, 03:33 am
We did not visit those tombs, mainly because of comments we read about them on this board. Do a search on Ming Tombs and you will see what I mean.
there is plenty to keep you busy in Beijing for 4 whole days. Summer Palace alone is at least half a day, because it takes about an hour to get there and an hour back into the city.
With only 4 days I would probably try to cover one spot as thoroughly as possible and not spend any of it traveling between cities.
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Author: loypeng
Date: 11/30/2005, 03:38 am
Hi Lindsey, I plan to have a trip to Shanghai during Christmas. How many days do you think is enough for two of us to cover all the places that you mentioned in your report in Shanghai?
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Author: Lindsey
Date: 11/30/2005, 06:46 am
We were there 3 nights and 3 days and I felt as though there was still more to do. Would have loved another few hours at the museum and did not have time to wander the French Concession or some of the other main shopping boulevards. Another night day and day would have been better.
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Author: 111op
Date: 11/30/2005, 07:09 am
Thanks, Lindsey, for getting back to me. I was set on Shanghai and hadn't considered Beijing at all. Now the ticket can't be changed, and I'm having second thoughts and am thinking I should squeeze it in. For some reason, I never thought about the cultural aspects of the trip.
I'll think more about it.
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Author: LaraCS
Date: 11/30/2005, 02:30 pm
Hi. I just wanted to add a comment about my experience with Robinson Li's service. We reserved him for a tour to the Summer Palace and Great Wall in Nov. 2005. We did not specify who would show up and we agreed to pay the quoted $125, which was also what was quoted on his website (www.beijingtaxi.com). I did assume it would be Mr. Li himself, but it turned out to be a young guy named Steve, along with a driver, in a nice SUV. We were quite happy with Steve as a guide. He spoke very good English. He also got us acrobat tickets and arranged a hutong tour for the following day that came with a guide who also spoke very good English. (I assume they got commissions for this but the prices were quite reasonable.) He and the driver returned to our hotel to take us to the acrobats that evening for no additional charge. They did get a bit lost on the way to the Great Wall (on the way out of Beijing and when detouring around Mutianyu because of some roadwork), but that doesn't bother me because I did not feel that our time was limited at all. The place we ate lunch was next to a Cloisonee factory, and Steve asked us when we wanted to eat and if we wanted to see the factory before we went in. The food was great (huge meal and best we had in China for only 45 RMB pp), and although the salesperson in the factory was pushy, we didn't buy much and it was our choice to go in. Hope that's helpful.
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Author: cherikm (cherikm@aol.com)
Date: 01/21/2006, 09:47 pm
Lindsey, have gleaned so much useful information from your posts on this thread, you have made my trip so much easier to plan. One more question, do you know where is the best place/market to buy north face jackets? My teenaged son heard they're available cheaply and I'd love to know exactly where to find them rather than wasting precious time that I'd rather fill with less touristy touring.
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Author: oreoh
Date: 02/16/2006, 05:21 pm
Hi Lindsey,
I am going to Beijing on April 1, 2006 and will be organizing mostly everything on my own. I was wondering what guidebook you used for the Forbidden City as I find the information in all the China guidebooks too general. Do you still recommend Robinson Li?
Thank you!
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Author: WileyCoyote (wasaf2000@cox.net)
Date: 02/18/2006, 03:29 pm
I am about to finalize my trip to China (April 11-April 27)...Beijing, Xi'an, Guilin, Yangshou, Chongqing, Yangtze 3-gorges cruise to Yichang,then on to Suzhou,Shanghai.
I will be traveling alone( do not like/do group tours). I am working with a Chinese travel/tour company based in Guilin. In each city I will be met and have at my disposal a driver and an English speaking guide.(I speak, conversationally, quite a fair amount of Chinese and could get around/survive without a great deal of difficulty, but I prefer a local guide/driver for time-efficiency/convenience.
The guide and driver will take me to all the normal sights(in Beijing,for example, the Wall, MingTombs, forbidden/summer palace, hutongs, etc etc...)plus any sidetrips in the day which I might add, such as going out to the Marco Polo Bridge. Generally, my evenings will be free-time,at my request, but the driver/guide will be available for a ridiculously low fee/tip if I should need their services. The company, itself, has stressed that I should NOT tip for the driver/guide services provided as part of our contracted itinerary, other than for these additional evening add-on requests which I might make. Traveling alone, I will probably offer to treat the driver and/or guide to dinner one evening, provided of course that they are personable, etc.
Now, with regard to tips,in general, I've been told by many people, including many ex-patriots living in China, that one should definitely NOT tip. Of course, tour guides/etc who deal with Westerners will have come to expect it, but anyone else in the general Chinese service arena could actually be insulted by being offered a tip. It's a complex cultural thing.
Now, what I would like to ask is if some recent visitor could provide here some specifics on prices...Restaurant prices, specifically. I know it is inexpensive, but I'm just curious. For example, I will probably be doing the famous/infamous "Quan Ju De" Roast Duck restaurant not far from Tianamen. In sept 2003, someone wrote this:
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1/2 Roast Duck, Soup, some sort of bread chapati type things, other vegetables dishes and some stuff that I don't know what it was! But everything we ate was so DELICOUS!!! We also had a 3 of the Big bottles of Zhaoqing Pijiu beer each. The Duck was so moist and it just melted in our mouths!! We were so full when we left. This entire meal for both of us cost only 28 RMB (US$5.32).
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I'd like to know how much the cost of living may have inceased over the past two years. Any comments from recent vistors will be appreciated.
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Author: Lindsey
Date: 02/18/2006, 08:43 pm
Cherikm, Not really sure on the North Face jackets question. Since Silk Alley was moved indoors, I don't know how it has changed. Honggiao Market might be a place to look. Also Xian Yang Lu in Shanghai.
Oreoh,
Just took a look at my bookshelf to see what books are there for China and I see that I used (dare I mention the competition here) the Frommer's books for Beijing and Shangahi. I also carried around lots of pages I printed out from various websites (including this one) about restaurants, historical sites, suggested walks, etc.
The maps in the Frommer's books were quite helpful in selecting hotels and figuring out generally where things were for logistical planning purposes. Then we got more detailed maps, brochures, etc when we arrived in each location. In Xian, we bought a book in the shop at the TerraCotta Warriors site.
Frommer's has a small section on the Forbidden City, with a map. That, combined with the headphone tour gave us all the information we needed. I'm pretty sure I saw more detailed books for sale at the site, if you want to really delve into it.
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Author: Neil_Oz
Date: 02/18/2006, 10:11 pm
In October 2004 we ate at the noisy but atmospheric Liqun Roast Duck Restaurant, also not too far from Tiananmen Square. We worked up an appetite finding it after the cabbie dropped us in an alley well short of the restaurant. I was loudly abused by an old lady when I accidentally kicked her flowerpot, and after the hand-signal directions given by sundry helpful locals got us thoroughly lost we had to put ourselves in the hands of a larcenous trishaw operator who charged Y20 to take us what proved to be about that many metres. I'm pretty sure another cabbie would have taken us to the door, but that's the luck of the game.
To the point - from memory the bill was about Y100 for two with beer and soft drinks, say US$12-13. Our mistake was to pre-order a whole duck, which left little room for other food, but we did our best. The "chapati type things" are the steamed pancakes traditionally served with Beijing Duck along with sliced green onions and a dipping sauce. And optionally the soup at the end of the meal.
An aside - it wasn't until I reached China that this sunk in, but rice isn't served automatically with a meal - at least not in the northern and eastern regions we visited. It's seen as a "filler", and so should not be requested if you're someone's guest, as that will imply that he hasn't provided enough food. As will finishing everything on your plate - ironic for those of us old enough to have mothers whose who would admonish us to "think of the poor people in China" if we left food on the plate.
BTW, I downloaded quite a few maps from the Frommers site before we went, and they proved very useful.
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Author: ekscrunchy
Date: 11/23/2006, 12:27 am
